"Quality": what's in a word?

slpfrsly

Physician, heal thyself
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Apr 1, 2019
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'Quality' is a word I think we all see used from time to time.

I have my own understanding of what the term means and how it may be appropriate to use, albeit sparingly, when judging or assessing a fragrance. Basically, I would break it down in 3 categories:

1. "Smell": in short, does it smell good/bad, cheap, natural, pleasant and all the rest of it. By and large I think this is a fairly self-explanatory: we all have notions of whether something smells 'real' or not - e.g. does the lavender note smell like real lavender. Of course, this is always going to be a subjective assessment but I would certainly include the way something smells as being integral to ideas of quality - particularly when it comes to calling something poor quality, i.e. there being ingredients that smell off putting, or a heavy use of alcoholic aromas or aromachemicals that simply smell weird. For me, javanol is a perfect example of something smelling 'poor quality' while attempting to recreate the aroma of something lovely: sandalwood. It doesn't smell real; it doesn't smell good. Therefore I'm happy to call fragrances that overuse it deficient in a qualitative sense.

2. Performance: this is a far more definitive category and by and large refers to how long something lasts on skin and how much you have to spray to get the benefit of the fragrance. While it's by no means the most important factor, the quality of being long lasting or wide reaching is certainly something that can be used to relate to the idea of something inherently qualitative - if something lasts 8 hours, as opposed to 4, that's hard to argue with as being, generally speaking, 'better'.

3. Cost: rather than being the cost of the final perfume, instead this refers to the cost of materials and, perhaps, the craftmasnship i.e. the 'quaity' of an ingredient, such as natural or real ingredients as opposed to just something that smells natural. There is a market for real or rare materials, such as sandalwood for instance, that is both scarce and desirable, as well as expensive. This 'quality' is linked to ideas of worth and value; both in market terms, where natural and rare ingredients will be deemed special, but also because we attribute value to their aromas, or in the case of oud, for sacred reasons. The other aspect, though far harder to judge with any empiricism, would be the craftmanship and the nose behind the fragrance, as this could be contestable for any number of reasons i.e. Office for Men being 'made' by Alberto Morillas, rather than whoever works for him. Unlike the other 2 categories, the 'quality' of materials in particular may well produce an inferior-smelling and inferior-performing fragrance in comparison to something of lesser 'quality' ingredients.

That final point sums up, for me, the inherent contradiction of trying to make any harmonious claim about 'quality'. These three ideas are all relevant to quality, and indeed many of them are quite hard to truly judge: for instance, what smells natural might not be natural; or, when a fragrance says it contains a rare ingredient, it may be in such small quantities that it is practically imperceptible.

This is why I believe it's an idea, and a 'value judgement', that is best avoided when talking about fragrance. Only when it seems obvious to one of the 3 categories, or when absolutely necessary to relay something of the fragrance to people who have not tried it, does it make much sense to declare anything about the supposed quality of a fragrance.

However...I see this notion of there being some kind of definitive, linear 'quality' used in ways to support prejudice, bias, and just simple subjective like or dislike of a fragrance: often these opinions are built on nothing more than good old signifiers like price (Veblen), scarcity, and marketing. When it comes to criticising the apparent 'quality' of fragrance it even seems the case that popularity can influence one's interpretation, which is laughable. Yet, a portion of the 'fragcomm' seems to think that by evoking something far firmer and purportedly objective - the idea of there being not only a fixed and definitive idea of 'quality', but also one that is linear and universal that ought to be declared to justify said opinion - that it can change an individual's opinion in to something greater, something that goes beyond just opinion and in to...well, I suppose something scientific. This seems to me to be utterly delusional at best and frankly pathetic, too; it's a continuation of the undercurrent of snobbery than evidently runs a course through fashion and those enthusiastic about fragrance. The very idea of there being 'niche quality', a phrase I'm sure many have heard, goes hand in hand with this snobbery - so far, based on what I have sampled, the variability in quality leads me to push back against any such notion that niche fragrances are better quality than designers, or that less popular fragrances are of better quality than popular ones: in fact I would be more open to arguing the opposite, though ultimately I feel there is no strict pattern or consistency when it comes to 'quality'.

So, what do you think. Are you the kind of person who uses 'quality' without much thought? Are you tried of people claiming 'quality' without the requiste authority to do so? Have you been fooled by reviewers or youtubers overhyping fragrances based on the unit price, rather than the ingredient cost, only to be bitterly disappointed by the end result? Or, do you perhaps have different or additional ideas of what 'quality' can mean?
 

Sheik Yerbouti

oakmoss fiend
Jul 20, 2017
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My notion of quality serves my needs but it is just mine.

All I’ll say is if I think a fragrance is quality, the primary factor is scent - the ingredients used, perception of notes and the person responsible for composing and blending all play a part.
Cost is relative and what was once abundant can become scarce so cost of ingredients isn’t enough of a factor except when the price of a fragrance is so low that it would be impossible for the fragrance to contain anything but the harshest of materials.

Performance doesn’t really factor into my idea of quality.
Sometimes I’ll sacrifice quality for performance as in CH Men Prive and sometimes performance for quality like with Chanel Pour Monsieur EDT.

Update
On reflection I’ll say that performance is a minor factor of quality. It’s a factor I don’t give much consideration to when choosing a scent but it probably does factor in subconsciously regarding my perception of a fragrance’s quality but it’s at the back of the list of any quality criteria. Scent is really king when it comes to quality.
 
Last edited:

The Cologne Cabinet

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Jul 22, 2014
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For my personal judgment, “quality” equates to a particular standard. For example, Azzaro Pour Homme is my standard for an aromatic fougere and every other fragrance I sample in that style will be judged against it. There has to be a baseline for reference.

We all have different standards based on personal taste so that is one factor. The other is exposure. Some will have had more exposure to different fragrances than others based on their age, budget, geographic location, ability to travel, etc...
 

purecaramel

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Nov 9, 2013
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My notion of quality serves my needs but it is just mine.

All I’ll say is if I think a fragrance is quality, the primary factor is scent - the ingredients used, perception of notes and the person responsible for composing and blending all play a part.
Cost is relative and what was once abundant can become scarce so cost of ingredients isn’t enough of a factor except when the price of a fragrance is so low that it would be impossible for the fragrance to contain anything but the harshest of materials.

Performance doesn’t really factor into my idea of quality.
Sometimes I’ll sacrifice quality for performance as in CH Men Prive and sometimes performance for quality like with Chanel Pour Monsieur EDT.

Update
On reflection I’ll say that performance is a minor factor of quality. It’s a factor I don’t give much consideration to when choosing a scent but it probably does factor in subconsciously regarding my perception of a fragrance’s quality but it’s at the back of the list of any quality criteria. Scent is really king when it comes to quality.

My view holds very close to this perspective.
 

Hugh V.

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2016
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So, what do you think. Are you the kind of person who uses 'quality' without much thought?
Somewhat. I don't have the authority, knowledge, or experience to really say what's quality and what's not.

Are you tried of people claiming 'quality' without the requiste authority to do so?
I honestly can't recall who or when reviewers have specifically cited something as high-quality. It's probably been tossed around so much that I hardly make note of it in reviews.

Or, do you perhaps have different or additional ideas of what 'quality' can mean?
I suppose it's pretty simplistic and uneducated when I use it.
I've sampled Santos Pasha Noir several times now. The opening and middle notes smell of a higher quality than most of my other mid-level designer fragrances (Polo Black, Drakkar Noir, JV, etc). It's to the point that the notes almost "sparkle" to me. And it's smoother and softer in execution, despite being a dark blue ambroxan-styled scent.

Then again, I also use "quality" to refer to cheapies that smell surprisingly good for their price tag. Ex:
Taxi by Cofinluxe. It's $9.99 but smells like it should be closer in price and reputation to something like VCA Tsar.
Cuba Black which is like $7.99 doesn't really last that long, but the smell itself feels like it should be up there with APH and Tuscany.
 

Diamondflame

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Jun 28, 2009
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Smells of ‘high quality’. I often assume most fragrance aficionados would get it. No reason to avoid using the word IMO. And how does one become an ‘authority’ in fragrance quality assessment?

But if I had to spell it out, ‘quality’ in my estimation includes the subjective appreciation of the overall ‘smell’, notes arrangement/composition, on-and-off skin performance and more objectively, of construction materials which may or may not be of the rare /expensive variety.

Value for money, and by extension - price are something else though, extraneous to ‘quality’.
 

Ken_Russell

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2006
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The first criteria are indeed also the personal ones likeliest used to rate, define, perceive the quality of a scent.
Would additionally consider a certain complexity and or a certain naturalness or at least effortlessness between the different phases of the fragrance developing in its full complexity as further important criteria.
 

imm0rtelle

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Apr 2, 2021
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Although performance is often brought up, and I would love to say I don't factor a fragrance's performance in how I determine whether it is a quality fragrance or not, I think I have a bias towards viewing fragrances that whisper as being more refined and higher quality. They give me a feeling of someone with a quiet confidence that isn't trying too hard. In a way this gives off a more mysterious feeling than a fragrance that shows all their cards and shouts loudly. By sitting so close to your skin, people have to come close to get a smell.
 

motorcade

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Dec 21, 2020
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Regarding quality: many of the reformulations that I enjoy wearing, have been labeled synthetic, "chemical", cheap, low quality, piercing, unpleasant or whatever. Most of the time in relation to a "vastly superior" original formulation. Should I care? Especially, when after seeking out the vintage versions, you realize most of the time the differences are very minor unless obsessing over them, sniffing up close in A-B testing - all the while being psychologically biased to validate to yourself (and the "community") that the vintage was indeed worth hunting down.

When I was younger, I was an elitist and purist in my audiophile hobby and I've just grown very tired of that mindset. Obsessing over details in the wrong way can start eating into the actual enjoyment very quickly.
 

imm0rtelle

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Apr 2, 2021
1,071
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Regarding quality: many of the reformulations that I enjoy wearing, have been labeled synthetic, "chemical", cheap, low quality, piercing, unpleasant or whatever. Most of the time in relation to a "vastly superior" original formulation. Should I care? Especially, when after seeking out the vintage versions, you realize most of the time the differences are very minor unless obsessing over them, sniffing up close in A-B testing - all the while being psychologically biased to validate to yourself (and the "community") that the vintage was indeed worth hunting down.

When I was younger, I was an elitist and purist in my audiophile hobby and I've just grown very tired of that mindset. Obsessing over details in the wrong way can start eating into the actual enjoyment very quickly.
This is tricky for me since I obsess over having the original formulation of fragrances as it best reflects the original intention, especially if it is creatively directed by a designer with a very hyper specific vision. Their vision might not always be the most commercial, so often their fragrances are reformulated to be more commercial. Francois Demachy's Dior Homme ruined Olivier Polge's version because Olivier Polge was creating a fragrance for Hedi Slimane. The reformulation did away with all the subtle sensitivity and vulnerability, making it more "masculine" and dense, by amping the cacao and woods. I'll have to re-test Francois Demachy's Bois d'Argent to see how much it has changed from Annick Menardo's version for Hedi Slimane.

I have less respect for fragrances created without being closely related to fashion, so I don't really care about reformulations. I trust my nose since they don't carry that same artistic value in my mind.
 

Andrewthecologneguy

Basenotes Plus
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Dec 26, 2006
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'Quality' is a word I think we all see used from time to time.

I have my own understanding of what the term means and how it may be appropriate to use, albeit sparingly, when judging or assessing a fragrance. Basically, I would break it down in 3 categories:

1. "Smell": in short, does it smell good/bad, cheap, natural, pleasant and all the rest of it. By and large I think this is a fairly self-explanatory: we all have notions of whether something smells 'real' or not - e.g. does the lavender note smell like real lavender. Of course, this is always going to be a subjective assessment but I would certainly include the way something smells as being integral to ideas of quality - particularly when it comes to calling something poor quality, i.e. there being ingredients that smell off putting, or a heavy use of alcoholic aromas or aromachemicals that simply smell weird. For me, javanol is a perfect example of something smelling 'poor quality' while attempting to recreate the aroma of something lovely: sandalwood. It doesn't smell real; it doesn't smell good. Therefore I'm happy to call fragrances that overuse it deficient in a qualitative sense.

2. Performance: this is a far more definitive category and by and large refers to how long something lasts on skin and how much you have to spray to get the benefit of the fragrance. While it's by no means the most important factor, the quality of being long lasting or wide reaching is certainly something that can be used to relate to the idea of something inherently qualitative - if something lasts 8 hours, as opposed to 4, that's hard to argue with as being, generally speaking, 'better'.

3. Cost: rather than being the cost of the final perfume, instead this refers to the cost of materials and, perhaps, the craftmasnship i.e. the 'quaity' of an ingredient, such as natural or real ingredients as opposed to just something that smells natural. There is a market for real or rare materials, such as sandalwood for instance, that is both scarce and desirable, as well as expensive. This 'quality' is linked to ideas of worth and value; both in market terms, where natural and rare ingredients will be deemed special, but also because we attribute value to their aromas, or in the case of oud, for sacred reasons. The other aspect, though far harder to judge with any empiricism, would be the craftmanship and the nose behind the fragrance, as this could be contestable for any number of reasons i.e. Office for Men being 'made' by Alberto Morillas, rather than whoever works for him. Unlike the other 2 categories, the 'quality' of materials in particular may well produce an inferior-smelling and inferior-performing fragrance in comparison to something of lesser 'quality' ingredients.

That final point sums up, for me, the inherent contradiction of trying to make any harmonious claim about 'quality'. These three ideas are all relevant to quality, and indeed many of them are quite hard to truly judge: for instance, what smells natural might not be natural; or, when a fragrance says it contains a rare ingredient, it may be in such small quantities that it is practically imperceptible.

This is why I believe it's an idea, and a 'value judgement', that is best avoided when talking about fragrance. Only when it seems obvious to one of the 3 categories, or when absolutely necessary to relay something of the fragrance to people who have not tried it, does it make much sense to declare anything about the supposed quality of a fragrance.

However...I see this notion of there being some kind of definitive, linear 'quality' used in ways to support prejudice, bias, and just simple subjective like or dislike of a fragrance: often these opinions are built on nothing more than good old signifiers like price (Veblen), scarcity, and marketing. When it comes to criticising the apparent 'quality' of fragrance it even seems the case that popularity can influence one's interpretation, which is laughable. Yet, a portion of the 'fragcomm' seems to think that by evoking something far firmer and purportedly objective - the idea of there being not only a fixed and definitive idea of 'quality', but also one that is linear and universal that ought to be declared to justify said opinion - that it can change an individual's opinion in to something greater, something that goes beyond just opinion and in to...well, I suppose something scientific. This seems to me to be utterly delusional at best and frankly pathetic, too; it's a continuation of the undercurrent of snobbery than evidently runs a course through fashion and those enthusiastic about fragrance. The very idea of there being 'niche quality', a phrase I'm sure many have heard, goes hand in hand with this snobbery - so far, based on what I have sampled, the variability in quality leads me to push back against any such notion that niche fragrances are better quality than designers, or that less popular fragrances are of better quality than popular ones: in fact I would be more open to arguing the opposite, though ultimately I feel there is no strict pattern or consistency when it comes to 'quality'.

So, what do you think. Are you the kind of person who uses 'quality' without much thought? Are you tried of people claiming 'quality' without the requiste authority to do so? Have you been fooled by reviewers or youtubers overhyping fragrances based on the unit price, rather than the ingredient cost, only to be bitterly disappointed by the end result? Or, do you perhaps have different or additional ideas of what 'quality' can mean?

Great idea for a thread slpfrsly.

Quality is subjective to the perceiver, set against a personal baseline or standard, as influenced by events.

The difficulty in assessing quality in fragrance is that scents are understood by our minds based on when and how it was originally presented.

We form an association to a scent due to what is happening to us at the type of first encounter, building a 'rolodex' in our minds.

Cost of an ingredient, art in composition, bottle and packaging, and external influences such as if it was recommended or a gift all play a role.

Yet, without the ability to appreciate (distinguish between similar ingredients for example) or in absence of external influence, quality is meaningless.

The perceiver is left then with how a scent makes them feel - a factor that remains constant agnostic to all the things that influence perception.

Myself as an example, swooned at fist sniff of Sospiro/Xerjoff Erba Pura; can't explain it but every time I smell it, all is right in the world.

I happened upon ZARA Amber Fusion and the effect is the exact same, though the cost of the ZARA is less than 10% of the original.

When I encountered Erba Pura, all the factors indicated quality: the scent itself, the glitz of the expensive and expansive store, the price tag, the perfect day...

When I encountered the ZARA as a blind buy, none of the previous factors were present, but it did not change my opinion of the scent.

To answer your questions directly, I do not consider a fragrance as quality unless in a qualitative comparison to a like fragrance.

Likewise, I dismiss the word as used by others when not being compared to another fragrance.

Quality is subjective, so one must do due diligence before accepting another person's idea of quality.
 

slpfrsly

Physician, heal thyself
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Apr 1, 2019
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Although performance is often brought up, and I would love to say I don't factor a fragrance's performance in how I determine whether it is a quality fragrance or not, I think I have a bias towards viewing fragrances that whisper as being more refined and higher quality. They give me a feeling of someone with a quiet confidence that isn't trying too hard. In a way this gives off a more mysterious feeling than a fragrance that shows all their cards and shouts loudly. By sitting so close to your skin, people have to come close to get a smell.

That's interesting. I think you're on to something with this but I suppose the alternative would be to say that a 'weak' or short-lived fragrance has been stingy on the raw ingredients, thus that relates to cost of materials as well, which is one of the three categories. As performance is one of the few quantitively measurable facets of fragrance then I think it's worth including but with a caveat, as you say. It's not as if every long-lasting aromachemical is better than a short-lived one: this category has to work in conjunction with the other points as well, i.e. it has to be judged on smell and it has to have have some sort of measured 'cost'.
 

deltasun

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Jun 12, 2017
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That's interesting. I think you're on to something with this but I suppose the alternative would be to say that a 'weak' or short-lived fragrance has been stingy on the raw ingredients, thus that relates to cost of materials as well, which is one of the three categories. As performance is one of the few quantitively measurable facets of fragrance then I think it's worth including but with a caveat, as you say. It's not as if every long-lasting aromachemical is better than a short-lived one: this category has to work in conjunction with the other points as well, i.e. it has to be judged on smell and it has to have have some sort of measured 'cost'.

Well, performance can be how loud it projects or how long it lasts. I definitely value the latter, as the projection would be more subjective in the type of fragrance it is.
 

imm0rtelle

Well-known member
Apr 2, 2021
1,071
863
That's interesting. I think you're on to something with this but I suppose the alternative would be to say that a 'weak' or short-lived fragrance has been stingy on the raw ingredients, thus that relates to cost of materials as well, which is one of the three categories. As performance is one of the few quantitively measurable facets of fragrance then I think it's worth including but with a caveat, as you say. It's not as if every long-lasting aromachemical is better than a short-lived one: this category has to work in conjunction with the other points as well, i.e. it has to be judged on smell and it has to have have some sort of measured 'cost'.

I've read reviews on the Hermessence line and a lot of reviews complain about its longevity and how the price is too expensive for the performance, but this is what I associate with what French people view as good taste. Like very very delicate pastry, prioritizing on technique and execution over bold flavours.
ricetta-per-la-torta-millefoglie-vegana_55578c7caa6f10f016ffbe0a652c698f.jpg

Croissant24-638x425.jpg


Whereas on the other end of the spectrum, I feel like I associate bold heavy fragrances with the Middle East.
PistachioBaklava-GettyImages-183422455-5997abb09abed50010b57402.jpg
 

Paddington

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Jun 17, 2021
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My notion of quality serves my needs but it is just mine.

All I’ll say is if I think a fragrance is quality, the primary factor is scent - the ingredients used, perception of notes and the person responsible for composing and blending all play a part.
Cost is relative and what was once abundant can become scarce so cost of ingredients isn’t enough of a factor except when the price of a fragrance is so low that it would be impossible for the fragrance to contain anything but the harshest of materials.

Performance doesn’t really factor into my idea of quality.
Sometimes I’ll sacrifice quality for performance as in CH Men Prive and sometimes performance for quality like with Chanel Pour Monsieur EDT.

Update
On reflection I’ll say that performance is a minor factor of quality. It’s a factor I don’t give much consideration to when choosing a scent but it probably does factor in subconsciously regarding my perception of a fragrance’s quality but it’s at the back of the list of any quality criteria. Scent is really king when it comes to quality.
I agree, for me performance projection sileage all those words to me mean nothing, all that matters is how the scent smells to me we live in a time where complete Frankenstein's are praised solely because they last for 18 hours with no mention of the scent it self
 
Last edited:

Borzoi

Nordandoft
May 27, 2020
331
611
If I use the term “quality”, I mostly use it to mean well-composed and balanced, and also not featuring an obvious overload of some cheap aroma chemical. Performance has zero meaning to me; for example, I’d consider Chanel’s Eau de Cologne and Guerlain’s Eau de Cologne Imperiale to both be very high quality, but they surely do not last long.
 

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