Why floods of new releases don’t do any good (Niche & Artisanal)

The perfume hype has increased tremendously again in recent years due to social media, and this naturally also results in higher perfume output by many brands from all over the world. Everyone wants a piece of the pie & is participating in the market. In recent years, it feels like more than ever before!

The thing is: the more fragrances are brought onto the market, the more difficult it becomes to filter out the really good ones, and a new problem arises: as already mentioned in the title, certain houses suddenly release a large number of fragrances in a short space of time, while the quality suffers significantly as a result. Not even mentioning the financial aspect, cause oh my.


I would like to take a closer look at this using several examples & comparisons of different brands & ranges (niche & artisanal) :


Niche range :

Guerlain :
Guerlain released 30 fragrances in 2023, which is about one fragrance every 2 weeks. In no other year so far have they released so many fragrances (correct me if im wrong ?). The closer you get to the last few years, the greater the output. The same goes for 2024 with already 16 fragrances by July. Of course, it was not always exactly 1 fragrance every 2 weeks, several fragrances appeared at the same time in the form of collections, such as the quite expensive, golden Extrait series with fragrances such as Bergamotte Fantastico Extrait.
In this collection, despite the high pricing and the promise of a natural note in the name, I & many others have noticed quite strong deviations, i.e. a high proportion of synthetics. The fragrances didn't really convince me, some even seemed annoyingly synthetic & downright overpriced for what they offered. And as I said, I was not alone in this, if you look at some of the other statements on various platforms.
The same could be applied to the other exclusive range with fragrances such as Tobacco Honey, where Guerlain completely lost any closeness to the house & chummed up to the modern zeitgeist without any identity.
I also found similar disappointments with the comparatively cheaper releases, such as Aqua Allegoria - Oud Yuzu or Lhomme Ideal Platine Prive. There is a clear trend: everything has become much more artificial & monotonous, i.e. more modern in a negative sense.
When I compare all this with older Guerlains, where much less was produced per year, I notice a considerable difference in quality. I'm referring to the natural components, the originality of the DNA, the depth, really everything seemed better in terms of quality in my opinion. It feels as if more effort and time was put into everything in the past. This is also reflected in the high demand for older, no longer produced Guerlain fragrances, which are already sold out and difficult to obtain (either not at all or, if you're lucky, very expensive through resell).
The number of really good fragrances that will be remembered for decades (in Guerlain's case, centuries!) has dropped drastically in recent years & as far as that goes, Guerlain still relies on the same old classics like Shalimar in the form of new flankers, which aren't exactly the cream of the crop either.


I would like to emphasize again that many of my statements are based on subjective fragrance perceptions & observations, but especially the higher synthetic content is undeniable due to the many, increasingly limited & expensive natural resources & Ifra regulations (not only for natural raw materials) of recent years, which have forced synthetic substitutes. This is also reflected in fragrance perception -> I find many of the new fragrances unpleasant-synthetic & more monotonous.


Artisan range :

Even in the artisanal sector, where mostly natural raw materials are used, completely free of Ifra restrictions, which are also very expensive & limited, at some houses I have also suddenly noticed this so-called release flood in recent years.


Ensar Oud :
You can see at least 1 new release from this brand every week since over a year. A brand that actually stands for extremely limited/rare, expensive & natural raw materials apparently still manages to produce more than some large corporations that work with far less expensive & limited raw materials.
65 releases appeared in 2023, including perfumes, attars & oud oils. Smaller quantities, yes, but these rare raw materials seem to be a dime a dozen. And im not even counting the gift fragrances, rose oils or other products that were also released like vetiver, rose & sandalwood oils, where the distillation process also takes a lot of time & work!
We are now in July 2024, and i’ve already counted 66 in total! This is like an average of just under 3 fragrances per week since the year began.


Is this good for the brand?
I have so far been able to test 16 fragrances from the years 2023-2024 & no fragrance, oil or attar has yet achieved a rating of 8 or above despite the high prices & big promises with the raw materials mentioned, many even below 7. I had the feeling with all of them that the older selection was much better in several aspects. There is the quality & clarity of the ouds, the perfumer's craft/blending with the raw materials, or rather the entire fragrance image with them: in the past, everything simply seemed better, deeper, more harmonious & balanced. In the meantime, some of the new creations seem quite inharmonious, uninspired, thrown together & no clear signature can be recognized (most probably several anonymous perfumers are employed, because Ensar himself probably never has the time & energy for all this alone). Furthermore, the advertising texts correspond less and less with the end product, disappointingly also several times with the supposedly high oud dosage & the actual perception. It seems as if they simply buy some expensive raw materials, mix old fragrances & oils together, contact anonymous perfumers & distillers & let them throw everything heartlessly onto the market like a mass production. I always have to test several fragrances from Ensar until I finally find an acceptable one. However, none of the new ones have really impressed me. This is partly due to the fact that I know many older fragrances & oils & the new ones simply can't keep up in direct comparison for my nose.
Also, how is a customer supposed to keep a good overview and be able to choose properly? Especially with the ever worsening pricing policy. I don't have the time, energy or money to spend 5 figures on mediocrity every week.
Conclusion here too : Some things used to be better


But there‘s also rays of hope in the artisan sector, such as Agar Aura :
Significantly fewer releases or much more time is taken for individual fragrances, and the result is really great, multi-layered oud fragrances that impress me far more and stay in my memory. The fragrances have more character, depth, better/smoother craftsmanship & complexity. You simply notice that much more time & effort has gone into it. The oud in particular is much more focused & multi-layered blended into the perfumes. The prices are also not as exaggerated as Ensars. In short, houses like Agar Aura are doing a lot of things better for me!


I've already discussed this flood of releases with friends and gathered some interesting thoughts from them:

"Imagine all 65 of Ensars were beautiful fragrances, that would be completely absurd. No one can create & release 3 masterpieces a week, it's not possible and never will be, no matter how many expensive raw materials are used, it also takes a lot of time & effort in blending."

"He will continue to produce mediocre products like on an assembly line as long as there are still customers who are unaware of the differences in quality. Too much hype does rarely good."

"He pops so many fragrances on the market, I just understand why I find them so soulless..."


I share their views.


And I hope that many houses with similar trends will go back to their roots, invest more time & effort in individual releases so that everyone can benefit as a result.


But now I'm interested in your opinion :

What do you think? Have you noticed similar developments? Have you also noticed some kind of mass production where only a few fragrances really stand out & convince ? Do you also agree that brands should take more time for individual releases, that will hopefully be remembered for a long time ?
Please let me know !

Schoeibksr said:

The thing is: the more fragrances are brought onto the market, the more difficult it becomes to filter out the really good ones,

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For me, not difficult, as I know what I like and if a new house appears, do my research before I make my decision to buy. it has worked for me.

hednic said:

For me, not difficult, as I know what I like and if a new house appears, do my research before I make my decision to buy. it has worked for me.

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With this I was more referring to a singular house that brings out 100+ in a year with similar ingredients, not multiple in general, as seen in the thread. It’s difficult to choose the best. With brands that don’t list certain notes, or simply lie on others regarding the dosage, as seen with my examples, research won’t do much for you, as you’re forced to buy blind, which gets harder, the more expensive the brand is, assuming you’re not super rich.

Schoeibksr said:

With this I was more referring to a singular house that brings out 100+ in a year with similar ingredients, not multiple in general, as seen in the thread. It’s difficult to choose the best. With brands that don’t list certain notes, or simply lie on others regarding the dosage, as seen with my examples, research won’t do much for you, as you’re forced to buy blind, which gets harder, the more expensive the brand is, assuming you’re not super rich.

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As a collector and user with thousands, whether a house has just one release or many in a year like Monatale or Mancera, If the house meets my specific collection criteria after my research I buy all the releases launched blindly regardless of cost and have never had any regrets. Again this is just me. It's different for each individual.

hednic said:

As a collector, whether a house has just one release or many in a year like Monatale or Mancera, If the house meets my specific collection criteria after my research I buy all the releases launched blindly regardless of cost and have never had any regrets. Again this is just me.

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If all of these blind buys really satisfied you, so be it then. But this thread focuses more on certain brands pushing out too much & worsening their quality compared to earlier days by a lot at the same time.

The really interesting (and potentially troubling, depending on how you answer it) question to ask here is why do these brands feel as though an avalanche of new releases is the best and most profitable strategy?

otterlake said:

The really interesting (and potentially troubling, depending on how you answer it) question to ask here is why do these brands feel as though an avalanche of new releases is the best and most profitable strategy?

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I think it’s because of the massive hype & the profit that comes along with it - certain brands get really greedy, and apparently there are enough people who keep buying & buying… hence why they won’t stop, regardless of sacrificing quality.

otterlake said:

The really interesting (and potentially troubling, depending on how you answer it) question to ask here is why do these brands feel as though an avalanche of new releases is the best and most profitable strategy?

Click to expand...

I always wonder this too, is it really a good strategy? I was thinking this about the recent Coty Infiniment launch of 14(!) fragrances. Even if there is something good in the bunch, who has the time to wade through all that?

Though I don't like his fragrances, Marc Antoine Barrois has done a good job of releasing few but impactful fragrances.

The increase is good for many brands and it is also clearly good for many perfume enthusiasts, collectors, and private traders. It is not good for perfumery in the long run.

It is not good for the established brands, who are unable to rest on their laurels and continue reaping the custom of both old and new customers with decades-old fragrances. The vast number of options and increase in market competition has put an end to that. Instead, to continue the offer of luxury, status, and quality in a perfume, reputable designer and niche brands must strive for novelty in order to keep ahead of the chasing pack. For Dior and Chanel, this means trend-setting: BdC and Sauvage are two edges of the dark blue sword that has defined masculine perfumery for the last 10-15 years. For other houses, novelty is difficult or even impossible, as they are not creating their own fragrances and are simply using slightly different blends or briefs that are available to many other companies as well. So, novelty must come in the form of new releases: this means either a new flanker (Parfum/Intense/Elixir) or having a high end/boutique line of expensive fragrances that are released and discontinued within a short space of time (driving interest and sales once customers latch on to the shortlived nature of these products).

It is impossible for established brands and the drivers of ingenuity within the perfume industry to survive solely on reputation and legacy without also leaning in to novelty. They are in a perilous place where all of their new competitors - whether they ask a lot more or a lot less for a bottle of fragrance than the established brand - are effectively ripping them off by imitating and/or outright cloning a fragrance with little to no outlay towards original creation. It is a major concern for European perfumery especially that its commercial and creative investments can see derivative and/or copied products priced both well above and well below their own product in almost no time at all. The risks of research and development will eventually become unbearable costs that force traditional houses and perfumers to simply give up. In a way, pivoting towards a huge mass seller (intended as such, from the fragrance to the marketing) in the form of Sauvage, BdC and so on, is a major concession made in order to stave off the loss of market share to newer products catering to newer customers with tastes and preferences to match. The dark blue trend is an apotheosis not only of masculine designer perfumery as it has been since the aquatic 90s but also of mixing continents and cultures together. It is for the globalised 21st Century, in opposition to the transatlantic tastes of the late C20th - more people to appeal to means a different point of commonality.

But whether this will be enough for the next generation is the question. People who only a few years ago would have seen Chanel as prohibitively expensive are already wearing and trading high end/boutique ouds on a regular basis (check your perfume groups). Perfumery is no longer exclusive or a preserve of the western middle classes. However, what was once aspirational can quickly become staid, and given that so much in perfumery is status-related, the designers and even niche brands that drive creativity are simply falling behind to the full-volume oriental remixes that are in fashion. The only old designer brand to be in any sort of credit since Sauvage was released (back in 2015) would be Louis Vuitton. How have they managed this? High end expensive fragrances, released and discontinued in rapid time. Visually striking yet consistent bottles, sustainability refill discount gimmick, designed to be tamper-proof/difficult to fake and/or refill. Hugely protective of supply chain, managing to avoid their products hitting discounters, maintains luxury appeal and customers paying full price. The fragrances themselves are "accessible" - in other words, there's as much innovation as there is rehashing in their fragrances, and it is catering to people who want an expensive and more potent version of a 90s/00s designer style. In a way, Parfums de Marly beat them to the same approach. But LV has been able to do this because of LVMH. They are operating from a point of massive, almost unique strength. Almost no other old fashion brand can do the same. It's fascinating to see what Dior & Chanel do next, whether they can repeat the dark blue success or if that was their final shot at domination.

This is part of a wider cultural, perhaps even spiritual, turn towards quantity. Rene Guenon. It is bad for the perfume industry in the long run, as the incentives to innovate and keep producing high quality, beautiful perfume are simply ravaged by predatory mercantile actions. For those solely interested in the money of it, then it's great! More interest, more money, more products to flog. We even see this in the second hand/discontinued market as well. Mercantile instincts...something about price of everything, value of nothing. The big brands pumping out several releases each year are treading water, like Blockbuster trying to keep Netflix bay. The technology, and the industry, has changed. Guerlain has gone much more expensive with their newer fragrances, and Chanel et al need to do the same (they, along with Armani and a few others, were early to respond to the increase in niche competitors like Lutens in the 90s by creating high end/boutique lines like Armani Prive). But the quality of the fragrance must (at least to some extent) be deemed worth it, and at some point they will need to restrict the ability of cloners and rip off companies from hacking in to their profits (fascinating to see if intellectual property could become a factor in perfumery, or if it will all be ended by sustainability laws instead).

Perfumery is at risk of becoming like most creative industries - just look at film and music, for example, and how terrible, derivative, and risk-free those have become. The professional middle classes that could sustain less profitable, more cerebral endeavours are disappearing or changing wholesale. Even as academia booms in size and scale, genuine scholars are replaced by an increasing number of credentialed imbeciles, whose tastes are basically no different to the average. This is true in many industries and professions - competency and merit, which would create a robust aesthetic culture, is simply not where the money is going. The trends the new middle classes will set - the products and culture they will demand - is still downstream from the cultural turn of the 60s as well i.e. it's subversive, usually vulgar, indulgent rather than creative. Or, if it takes its inspiration from more recent cultural events, then it is identitarian and that usually means sentimental pastiche - which I think we already see in perfumery e.g. location names, a reification of perceived identity through ingredient or concept. The closest thing we might have to exclusivity is artisanal perfumery, but this is still caught in the same commercial bind as all of the above, and mostly seems to appeal to the conceptual wishes of the customer rather than the aestheic (i.e. generally, artisans are not creating superior fragrances, which they absolutely have to be to provide competition to the mass market). So, instead, we mostly have mass tastes but...amplified and made more expensive. Hence $800 "high end" white sneakers and "gourmet" burgers and neverending Star Wars spin offs.

An endless sea of amber-ambroxan-ouds will outcompete the most beautiful fragrance and most people will be happy about it.

I still maintain the future of perfumery is in atmospheric rather than wearable fragrances i.e. the kind of thing Akro makes but sponsored by galleries, theatres etc rather than individual consumers.

otterlake said:

The really interesting (and potentially troubling, depending on how you answer it) question to ask here is why do these brands feel as though an avalanche of new releases is the best and most profitable strategy?

Click to expand...

I suspect that a sizable number of them are built specifically to operate in the red -- i.e., money laundering.

Another percentage of them are undoubtedly just vanity projects for the massive ego of one individual.

Kind of similar to the restaurant business, now that I think of it.

slpfrsly said:

The increase is good for many brands and it is also clearly good for many perfume enthusiasts, collectors, and private traders. It is not good for perfumery in the long run.

It is not good for the established brands, who are unable to rest on their laurels and continue reaping the custom of both old and new customers with decades-old fragrances. The vast number of options and increase in market competition has put an end to that. Instead, to continue the offer of luxury, status, and quality in a perfume, reputable designer and niche brands must strive for novelty in order to keep ahead of the chasing pack. For Dior and Chanel, this means trend-setting: BdC and Sauvage are two edges of the dark blue sword that has defined masculine perfumery for the last 10-15 years. For other houses, novelty is difficult or even impossible, as they are not creating their own fragrances and are simply using slightly different blends or briefs that are available to many other companies as well. So, novelty must come in the form of new releases: this means either a new flanker (Parfum/Intense/Elixir) or having a high end/boutique line of expensive fragrances that are released and discontinued within a short space of time (driving interest and sales once customers latch on to the shortlived nature of these products).

It is impossible for established brands and the drivers of ingenuity within the perfume industry to survive solely on reputation and legacy without also leaning in to novelty. They are in a perilous place where all of their new competitors - whether they ask a lot more or a lot less for a bottle of fragrance than the established brand - are effectively ripping them off by imitating and/or outright cloning a fragrance with little to no outlay towards original creation. It is a major concern for European perfumery especially that its commercial and creative investments can see derivative and/or copied products priced both well above and well below their own product in almost no time at all. The risks of research and development will eventually become unbearable costs that force traditional houses and perfumers to simply give up. In a way, pivoting towards a huge mass seller (intended as such, from the fragrance to the marketing) in the form of Sauvage, BdC and so on, is a major concession made in order to stave off the loss of market share to newer products catering to newer customers with tastes and preferences to match. The dark blue trend is an apotheosis not only of masculine designer perfumery as it has been since the aquatic 90s but also of mixing continents and cultures together. It is for the globalised 21st Century, in opposition to the transatlantic tastes of the late C20th - more people to appeal to means a different point of commonality.

But whether this will be enough for the next generation is the question. People who only a few years ago would have seen Chanel as prohibitively expensive are already wearing and trading high end/boutique ouds on a regular basis (check your perfume groups). Perfumery is no longer exclusive or a preserve of the western middle classes. However, what was once aspirational can quickly become staid, and given that so much in perfumery is status-related, the designers and even niche brands that drive creativity are simply falling behind to the full-volume oriental remixes that are in fashion. The only old designer brand to be in any sort of credit since Sauvage was released (back in 2015) would be Louis Vuitton. How have they managed this? High end expensive fragrances, released and discontinued in rapid time. Visually striking yet consistent bottles, sustainability refill discount gimmick, designed to be tamper-proof/difficult to fake and/or refill. Hugely protective of supply chain, managing to avoid their products hitting discounters, maintains luxury appeal and customers paying full price. The fragrances themselves are "accessible" - in other words, there's as much innovation as there is rehashing in their fragrances, and it is catering to people who want an expensive and more potent version of a 90s/00s designer style. In a way, Parfums de Marly beat them to the same approach. But LV has been able to do this because of LVMH. They are operating from a point of massive, almost unique strength. Almost no other old fashion brand can do the same. It's fascinating to see what Dior & Chanel do next, whether they can repeat the dark blue success or if that was their final shot at domination.

This is part of a wider cultural, perhaps even spiritual, turn towards quantity. Rene Guenon. It is bad for the perfume industry in the long run, as the incentives to innovate and keep producing high quality, beautiful perfume are simply ravaged by predatory mercantile actions. For those solely interested in the money of it, then it's great! More interest, more money, more products to flog. We even see this in the second hand/discontinued market as well. Mercantile instincts...something about price of everything, value of nothing. The big brands pumping out several releases each year are treading water, like Blockbuster trying to keep Netflix bay. The technology, and the industry, has changed. Guerlain has gone much more expensive with their newer fragrances, and Chanel et al need to do the same (they, along with Armani and a few others, were early to respond to the increase in niche competitors like Lutens in the 90s by creating high end/boutique lines like Armani Prive). But the quality of the fragrance must (at least to some extent) be deemed worth it, and at some point they will need to restrict the ability of cloners and rip off companies from hacking in to their profits (fascinating to see if intellectual property could become a factor in perfumery, or if it will all be ended by sustainability laws instead).

Perfumery is at risk of becoming like most creative industries - just look at film and music, for example, and how terrible, derivative, and risk-free those have become. The professional middle classes that could sustain less profitable, more cerebral endeavours are disappearing or changing wholesale. Even as academia booms in size and scale, genuine scholars are replaced by an increasing number of credentialed imbeciles, whose tastes are basically no different to the average. This is true in many industries and professions - competency and merit, which would create a robust aesthetic culture, is simply not where the money is going. The trends the new middle classes will set - the products and culture they will demand - is still downstream from the cultural turn of the 60s as well i.e. it's subversive, usually vulgar, indulgent rather than creative. Or, if it takes its inspiration from more recent cultural events, then it is identitarian and that usually means sentimental pastiche - which I think we already see in perfumery e.g. location names, a reification of perceived identity through ingredient or concept. The closest thing we might have to exclusivity is artisanal perfumery, but this is still caught in the same commercial bind as all of the above, and mostly seems to appeal to the conceptual wishes of the customer rather than the aestheic (i.e. generally, artisans are not creating superior fragrances, which they absolutely have to be to provide competition to the mass market). So, instead, we mostly have mass tastes but...amplified and made more expensive. Hence $800 "high end" white sneakers and "gourmet" burgers and neverending Star Wars spin offs.

An endless sea of amber-ambroxan-ouds will outcompete the most beautiful fragrance and most people will be happy about it.

I still maintain the future of perfumery is in atmospheric rather than wearable fragrances i.e. the kind of thing Akro makes but sponsored by galleries, theatres etc rather than individual consumers.

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Really, really well written & informative, thank you so much, I agree in most parts. As you said, it is good from a financial standpoint, but bad in terms of overall scent quality & creativity/innovations.
I would be happy if Chanel finally brings out a solid mens cologne again & have to say that their release pacing is far better than others. How long has it been since a new male perfume dropped
You’re right on Louis Vuitton. I even used to have a old bottle of the so called Oud perfume with lots of synthetic Ambra-substites “Ombre Nomade“, but got rid off it, as the huge popularity in my country & the potent amount of synthetics got displeasing to my nose, so I started getting to know more & more from the natural artisanal factor, which portrays & delivers the natural quality older Guerlains for example used to have (lots of natural florals, oak moss…). But taste-wise i still lean more towards the oriental side & fresh citrus scents
From LV I still own Imagination tho, despite the high dosage of Ambroxan & white musk. I prefer these kind of synthetics over potent superambers like Ambrocenide. I thoroughly enjoy fresh scents like this & they nailed it on this one for me. But most of their catalogue I do not enjoy…
I will take a deeper look at Akro, sounds interesting !

Schoeibksr said:

I would be happy if Chanel finally brings out a solid mens cologne again & have to say that their release pacing is far better than others. How long has it been since a new male perfume dropped

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It's been 14 years since Bleu de Chanel was released, so I think the question has to be wondering about "if" as much as "when" Chanel release a replacement. As I say, it could be that BdC and Sauvage were the last big shot at this model for mass appeal. The money that matters is mostly in Asia, and most designer brands have gone upscale to attract customers there, particularly in the far east. Their fragrances are already catering to Asian tastes - ouds, yuzus etc - and trying to further harmonise these styles with something at least tenuously traditional and European (Sauvage is technically an aromatic fougere...yes, hard to believe when you smell it, but it's true) as well as mass-appealing seems like a monumental task. Is it possible to one-up BdC/Sauvage? If so, how? And if they get rid of the European/American-ness (less green, less aromatic, less fresh, even less traditional) then that would hardly be much different to what these brands are already doing with their expensive, exclusive, high end lines. It would also likely signal the end of these brands as genuine industry leaders, as they would be responding to what other brands are doing (i.e. big, brash orientals), rather than setting the trend of the next decade.

So, everything hinges on what Chanel and Dior do next. It'll be fascinating whatever happens. The longer they go without replacing BdC and Sauvage (Chanel has announced a new limited edition flanker to Allure Homme Sport, which is nearly 20 years old), the more likely it is that their dark blue mega sellers were the last of their kind.

slpfrsly said:

It's been 14 years since Bleu de Chanel was released, so I think the question has to be wondering about "if" as much as "when" Chanel release a replacement. As I say, it could be that BdC and Sauvage were the last big shot at this model for mass appeal. The money that matters is mostly in Asia, and most designer brands have gone upscale to attract customers there, particularly in the far east. Their fragrances are already catering to Asian tastes - ouds, yuzus etc - and trying to further harmonise these styles with something at least tenuously traditional and European (Sauvage is technically an aromatic fougere...yes, hard to believe when you smell it, but it's true) as well as mass-appealing seems like a monumental task. Is it possible to one-up BdC/Sauvage? If so, how? And if they get rid of the European/American-ness (less green, less aromatic, less fresh, even less traditional) then that would hardly be much different to what these brands are already doing with their expensive, exclusive, high end lines. It would also likely signal the end of these brands as genuine industry leaders, as they would be responding to what other brands are doing (i.e. big, brash orientals), rather than setting the trend of the next decade.

So, everything hinges on what Chanel and Dior do next. It'll be fascinating whatever happens. The longer they go without replacing BdC and Sauvage (Chanel has announced a new limited edition flanker to Allure Homme Sport, which is nearly 20 years old), the more likely it is that their dark blue mega sellers were the last of their kind.

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Dior & Chanel have shown through time that they are able to adjust & satisfy the majority, mostly as you said with new interpretations of already existing classic, european genres that have been working for a long time (Fresh/blue Fougères with high amounts of Calone or Ambroxan for men, light Fruity-florals or opulent flower-based perfumes for women). The question is really tricky. If they want to create a global bestseller like their blue scents again, while also being something new, they can’t solely target & please the asian market by giving them another Yuzu or Oud scent, as Louis Vuitton has already done that with On The Beach (Yuzu) & Ombre Nomade (Oud), as well as other brands.

But at the same time, with big innovations there is also risk of not satisfying customers, who simply won’t like the new thing, as they are used too much to common & popular norms.
I think the solution lies in the middle, as it mostly has been with them : Taking something that is known & popular, but putting their own little twist on it with a world class perfumer. While Chanel has a good perfumer with Polge, Dior & Kurkdjian seem to worry me a bit, as I‘m not a big fan of his love for extremely synthetic DNA‘s.

Would it be, as you said, basically the same thing Louis Vuitton is doing ? Well, yes, but Chanel & Dior are still big names, and if they manage to pull off a good fresh perfume like them, I think it will sell great. Take some natural citrusses, some interesting mid note as a new twist (like Tea in Imagination), make it long lasting but not penetrating (like Ambroxan & white musk in Imagination, which are less aggressive than other Ambra- or wood substitutes), put some of the Chanel/Dior-DNA/style on it & I think you have good chances of it selling great. Will it be monumental for decades ? That will also depend on the marketing campaign, as it played a huge role for Sauvages success with Johnny Depp as the advertising face.

In conclusion, I don’t think they will come up with something totally new, they won’t change a running system & hope that their new release will simply bang. If they fail, well, then they will shrink as you said, while others like LV continue to grow. I‘m also excited. So basically I’m agreeing with most that you’re saying

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You’re also talking to the no.1 Yuzu & Oud fan here (own multiple essential oils & natural perfumes with both notes. Even other products lol), and while you’re right that many mainstream brands started jumping on the bandwagon with them, sadly very few outside, and actually no one inside of the european sector, has portrayed either of the notes in a authentic way. I’ve tested so many so-called Oud & Yuzu (in the name or note pyramid) fragrances from european brands & unfortunately not a single one reminded me of the real deal by the slightest bit, and that also includes bis names like Guerlain, who surprisingly advertise their scents with lots of natural compounds, while not listing the cheaper, synthetic & dominant substitutes that are actually inside.

One of the few brands outside of europe for example, that actually gave me real Yuzu vibes, was J-Scents Yuzu, but again, it was supported by other citrus notes & possibly also has synthetic ingredients, which get more visible, as the scent dries down musky & woodsy. Same could be applied to a vintage formula of Issey Miyakes “L'eau d'Issey pour Homme“, which by the way was really early with the trend setting of Yuzu.

With oud, I think there’s no need to even start. How many brands list oud as a note or have it in their name, while having potent synthetic woods, that don’t resemble the real deal at all (again, also Guerlain. They even went full cash cow by combining both with their disappointing “Oud Yuzu“. That scent portrays basically anything we’re discussing right now). One of the reasons I have shifted more towards the natural, artisanal sector. I just love both notes too much.

Schoeibksr said:

Dior & Chanel have shown through time that they are able to adjust & satisfy the majority, mostly as you said with new interpretations of already existing classic, european genres that have been working for a long time (Fresh/blue Fougères with high amounts of Calone or Ambroxan for men, light Fruity-florals or opulent flower-based perfumes for women). The question is really tricky. If they want to create a global bestseller like their blue scents again, while also being something new, they can’t solely target & please the asian market by giving them another Yuzu or Oud scent, as Louis Vuitton has already done that with On The Beach (Yuzu) & Ombre Nomade (Oud), as well as other brands.

But at the same time, with big innovations there is also risk of not satisfying customers, who simply won’t like the new thing, as they are used too much to common & popular norms.
I think the solution lies in the middle, as it mostly has been with them : Taking something that is known & popular, but putting their own little twist on it with a world class perfumer. While Chanel has a good perfumer with Polge, Dior & Kurkdjian seem to worry me a bit, as I‘m not a big fan of his love for extremely synthetic DNA‘s.

Would it be, as you said, basically the same thing Louis Vuitton is doing ? Well, yes, but Chanel & Dior are still big names, and if they manage to pull off a good fresh perfume like them, I think it will sell great. Take some natural citrusses, some interesting mid note as a new twist (like Tea in Imagination), make it long lasting but not penetrating (like Ambroxan & white musk in Imagination, which are less aggressive than other Ambra- or wood substitutes), put some of the Chanel/Dior-DNA/style on it & I think you have good chances of it selling great. Will it be monumental for decades ? That will also depend on the marketing campaign, as it played a huge role for Sauvages success with Johnny Depp as the advertising face.

In conclusion, I don’t think they will come up with something totally new, they won’t change a running system & hope that their new release will simply bang. If they fail, well, then they will shrink as you said, while others like LV continue to grow. I‘m also excited. So basically I’m agreeing with most that you’re saying

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You’re also talking to the no.1 Yuzu & Oud fan here (own multiple essential oils & natural perfumes with both notes. Even other products lol), and while you’re right that many mainstream brands started jumping on the bandwagon with them, sadly very few outside, and actually no one inside of the european sector, has portrayed either of the notes in a authentic way. I’ve tested so many so-called Oud & Yuzu (in the name or note pyramid) fragrances from european brands & unfortunately not a single one reminded me of the real deal by the slightest bit, and that also includes bis names like Guerlain, who surprisingly advertise their scents with lots of natural compounds, while not listing the cheaper, synthetic & dominant substitutes that are actually inside.

One of the few brands outside of europe for example, that actually gave me real Yuzu vibes, was J-Scents Yuzu, but again, it was supported by other citrus notes & possibly also has synthetic ingredients, which get more visible, as the scent dries down musky & woodsy. Same could be applied to a vintage formula of Issey Miyakes “L'eau d'Issey pour Homme“, which by the way was really early with the trend setting of Yuzu.

With oud, I think there’s no need to even start. How many brands list oud as a note or have it in their name, while having potent synthetic woods, that don’t resemble the real deal at all (again, also Guerlain. They even went full cash cow by combining both with their disappointing “Oud Yuzu“. That scent portrays basically anything we’re discussing right now). One of the reasons I have shifted more towards the natural, artisanal sector. I just love both notes too much.

Click to expand...

We could swap oud and yuzu with saffron and cherry and still be talking about the same phenomenon. How Dior/Chanel et al approach making another mass selling fragrance (if that's the route they take) when European and even American customers are becoming less important in relation to Asia is the crux of the issue. If they swing back to something more parochial than the current globofrag approach - away from the spicy and potent dark blues (or gourmand ambers and synthetic ouds) - the risks are massive. But if they continue diluting the concept, stripping it of every vestige of recognisable European beauty as was mastered over several centuries, the question has to be whether anyone will even care. Is Sauvage EDT that different to the many other ambroxan bombs on the market? Brand name alone can only carry a product so far for so long. My hunch is that we've already seen the peak of mass appeal with Sauvage EDT specifically, and that some very big brands (probably not Chanel or Dior, but D&G tier), will be out of business or operating in a severely reduced form in the near future. The ones that are able to survive - the Chanels, the Louis Vuittons, the Tom Fords - are either big enough to dominate a trend early when it matters, or will continue with the rapid release and discontinuation model simply because it works. But maybe I am wrong?

So much of what we're discussing will depend simply on the chemistry of perfume. Bleu de Chanel in particular is really not that far removed from Allure Homme, which was released in the 90s. They both share a synthetic sandalwood type heart, with different accompanying notes. Allure Homme Sport and flankers mark the transition from the 90s to the 2010s. It will be new aromachemicals, new synthetics or new uses, that determine what these brands make. We can look at how aquatics set the tone for the 90s and ambroxan for the 2010s. What's fascinating, however, is that Dior Sauvage shares some significant similarities with Aventus, which is undoubtedly the fragrance of the last 15 years. If they were to repeat this - creating a more accessible, mass appealing version of the fashionable masculine fragrance of the last few years - what would they create? It would probably be an amber oud.

To align with @slpfrsly , I think we have seen the last big mainstream designer releases beyond life-extending flankers, and the reason is a lack of unilateral mainstream culture.

We enjoyed monocultures for years in a US and Europe-led fashion world, perpetuated by TV and magazines, limited sources of advertisement and cultural stewardship otherwise, etc.

Now with a hyper-connected online global world consisting of dozens if not hundreds of cultural bubbles and echo chambers that form, expand, burst, and reform across the planet (e.g. influencers), it's not profitable enough to do a "one-size-fits-all" mainstream pillar launch anymore.

Hence, all the limited editions, or high-margin exclusives that come and go yearly, sometimes quarterly, taking over the fashion fragrance market (e.g. Tom Ford's private blends).

slpfrsly said:

We could swap oud and yuzu with saffron and cherry and still be talking about the same phenomenon. How Dior/Chanel et al approach making another mass selling fragrance (if that's the route they take) when European and even American customers are becoming less important in relation to Asia is the crux of the issue. If they swing back to something more parochial than the current globofrag approach - away from the spicy and potent dark blues (or gourmand ambers and synthetic ouds) - the risks are massive. But if they continue diluting the concept, stripping it of every vestige of recognisable European beauty as was mastered over several centuries, the question has to be whether anyone will even care. Is Sauvage EDT that different to the many other ambroxan bombs on the market? Brand name alone can only carry a product so far for so long. My hunch is that we've already seen the peak of mass appeal with Sauvage EDT specifically, and that some very big brands (probably not Chanel or Dior, but D&G tier), will be out of business or operating in a severely reduced form in the near future. The ones that are able to survive - the Chanels, the Louis Vuittons, the Tom Fords - are either big enough to dominate a trend early when it matters, or will continue with the rapid release and discontinuation model simply because it works. But maybe I am wrong?

So much of what we're discussing will depend simply on the chemistry of perfume. Bleu de Chanel in particular is really not that far removed from Allure Homme, which was released in the 90s. They both share a synthetic sandalwood type heart, with different accompanying notes. Allure Homme Sport and flankers mark the transition from the 90s to the 2010s. It will be new aromachemicals, new synthetics or new uses, that determine what these brands make. We can look at how aquatics set the tone for the 90s and ambroxan for the 2010s. What's fascinating, however, is that Dior Sauvage shares some significant similarities with Aventus, which is undoubtedly the fragrance of the last 15 years. If they were to repeat this - creating a more accessible, mass appealing version of the fashionable masculine fragrance of the last few years - what would they create? It would probably be an amber oud.

Click to expand...

Welp, seems like Chanel just released
„Allure Homme Sport Superleggera“ & Dior „Sauvage Eau Forte“.
The flankering continues…

Schoeibksr said:

Welp, seems like Chanel just released
„Allure Homme Sport Superleggera“ & Dior „Sauvage Eau Forte“.
The flankering continues…

Click to expand...

I thought you were kidding.

Nope.

Superleggera? LOL

Even funnier, I'll probably sample it.

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In all seriousness - I pretty much agree with @Varanis Ridari above. The era of everyone watching "Friends" on Thursdays at 8:30 (7:30 central), and wearing J'Adore or Bleu are over. Now there is a TV show, perfume, shoe, car, bottled water etc. for every taste. I think this is mostly a good thing.

Just a quirky observation....

Chanel Allure Homme Sport Superleggara is not out yet. Release date TBA.

There are already about 15-20 people at the Brand X frag site that have weighed in on its longevity, sillage, price, etc.

StylinLA said:

Just a quirky observation....

Chanel Allure Homme Sport Superleggara is not out yet. Release date TBA.

There are already about 15-20 people at the Brand X frag site that have weighed in on its longevity, sillage, price, etc.

Click to expand...

It’s supposed to drop in August, is already on Chanels website (not purchasable though) & notes are already leaked, as well as general informations about the perfume from Polge.