Does anyone else get the sense that the saturation of fragrances in the market is causing great art to get lost?

Hey all,

I've noticed in the last decade that there have been so many fragrances that hit the market and most of them have disappeared. Almost as if the various houses don't have the cash to really produce a fragrance, test it in-house with good noses, then test it among potential customers, then release a refined fragrance that becomes a hit. It seems like the tactic is to "moderately" produce a few dozen fragrances, release them and find out which sell well, then discontinue the ones that don't sell. Almost certainly I've noticed great fragrances that got discontinued. The one that I rail over the most is Tom Ford's Plum Japonais. There are many more. I would risk a guess that there are fragrances I never got a chance to even smell that have hit the counter then got discontinued despite likely being potentially great fragrances if they were tweaked, more time were given to refine them before release.

This mass-market of fragrances seem to be lacking quality attention to detail, good materials and proper marketing when they have a good one. The fragrance counters often have what smells like a million artificial smelling "duds" and only maybe one or two solid options. Calvin Klein can't seem to get a hit anymore. I would like to see better offerings at the retail malls than what's been peddled in recent years. I've smelled better fragrances from small-time fragrance makers recently than the big designer labels. Maybe the passion for making great fragrance just isn't with the designers anymore. Maybe it's with the smaller, less visible artists?

I'd wager that many interesting fragrances have gotten lost in the crowd.

Churn and Burn as they say.
I find it quite strange myself also.
And like with most things .... the good things just don't last.

2010 - 2020 was an incredible time in Perfumery. So many good releases in this decade. After 2020 it all fell apart.

Plum Japonais is definitely one that comes to mind for me too.
I literally remember seeing it one day on a Tom Ford counter, put a few sprays on and walked away.
I couldn't get it off my mind for the next 4 days and when I went back to buy a bottle later that week, it was just - GONE!
Never to see the light of day again.

That's a tricky question. Filtering things through my own sort of singular point of view, when I first started in here in 2009, I often stopped into the Scent Bar to try things I'd see discussed in here. They almost always had what I was looking for with a tester, and had full bottles available to purchase in spite of it being a small space.

Flash forward to 2024 and now when I go in there, they very often don't have an in store tester of what I'm looking for, let alone a full bottle. I'm usually about 3-5 years behind in my sampling. Meaning, a frag discussed a lot in here four years ago is something I may go in to try next week. The number of niche fragrances available has overwhelmed their ability to even keep testers in store.

I've learned to always call first. The front counter of the "bar" will have 6-8 new brands displayed, most of which I've never seen discussed in here. It will be several whole lines, each with half dozen different bottles. Fragrance is a very lucrative mark up. Obscene markup. So it seems to tempt a lot of niche players to get into the market.

I think a lot of the new stuff that comes out is probably very good. But I like many Basenoters probably have a "wait and see" attitude on many of them.

I have a semi painful memory of buying a pricey bottle of a "frag du jour" in Barneys. Brand new line...SAs were hawking it...Barneys exclusive...a very wide array of scents hung on the name of some kind of artist/influencer...Duchafour was the perfumer. The line folded up within about a year.

The designer world seems to be scared and playing it safe. Which makes some sense if you've ever worked in corporate world. Allure Homme Sport Superleggara makes sense to everyone at Chanel. If it fails, okay- "We ALL thought it would work". But if you launch something all new that fizzles, woe be unto you. Some heads are going to roll. "What were you thinking Fenster? Good luck on your next job!"

A site like this is a priceless resource to separate the wheat from the chaff. You're not likely to sneak crap past a lot of the hardcore users in here.

The market is saturated, but personally doesn't bother or worry me.

It's like Hollywood, "we'll throw it against the wall and see if it sticks". If it sticks we will go with it and wring every dollar out of it we can.
If it doesn't stick we'll move on to something else.

No. The advent of the internet makes it more accessible than at any point in history to track and follow any subject matter, should you desire to do so. It’s all simply a matter of how passionate/interested you are that determines whether you “miss” anything. There’s enough enthusiast sites like this to follow the greater majority of news and releases.

It just feels more saturated now because you’re aware of all the different brands due to the internet and how media is manically pushed and consumed, (and to an extent, choices private-equity biz makes to drive profit)but in reality there were always brands that you weren’t aware of creating things you would miss, so i believe the net effect (increase of brands/offerings but contrasted with the wider internet reach of awareness vs prior channels/advertisements), is nil.

If you’re looking for passion, large profit-driven companies is probably not the first place i’d look

I think if you consider fragrance art you are bound to be heartbroken. The companies who make it are not treating it like art, and it literally evaporates. I am sympathetic, and I do agree it is the most evocative product made by the cosmetic industry, but that's all it is to me.

It is a shame when interesting products get discontinued, but for me there is so much to explore I don't get hung up on it. When I got into this hobby I saw avenues which would lead to my misery and I consciously avoid them, which is why I don't buy or sample discontinued stuff, I don't worry about batch codes or anything like that. Nevertheless I have found so many interesting smells, many of which I like wearing.

I always think of that Frank Ocean song 'it's a bad religion, to love something that doesn't love you back'. I believe Velasquez and Paul Klee loved me in some way, I don't think IFF or Takasago does.

Melbourne2024 said:

Churn and Burn as they say.
I find it quite strange myself also.
And like with most things .... the good things just don't last.

2010 - 2020 was an incredible time in Perfumery. So many good releases in this decade. After 2020 it all fell apart.

Plum Japonais is definitely one that comes to mind for me too.
I literally remember seeing it one day on a Tom Ford counter, put a few sprays on and walked away.
I couldn't get it off my mind for the next 4 days and when I went back to buy a bottle later that week, it was just - GONE!
Never to see the light of day again.

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timetoexpress said:

No. The advent of the internet makes it more accessible than at any point in history to track and follow any subject matter, should you desire to do so. It’s all simply a matter of how passionate/interested you are that determines whether you “miss” anything. There’s enough enthusiast sites like this to follow the greater majority of news and releases.

It just feels more saturated now because you’re aware of all the different brands due to the internet and how media is manically pushed and consumed, (and to an extent, choices private-equity biz makes to drive profit)but in reality there were always brands that you weren’t aware of creating things you would miss, so i believe the net effect (increase of brands/offerings but contrasted with the wider internet reach of awareness vs prior channels/advertisements), is nil.

If you’re looking for passion, large profit-driven companies is probably not the first place i’d look

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Mr. Spritz said:

I think if you consider fragrance art you are bound to be heartbroken. The companies who make it are not treating it like art, and it literally evaporates. I am sympathetic, and I do agree it is the most evocative product made by the cosmetic industry, but that's all it is to me.

It is a shame when interesting products get discontinued, but for me there is so much to explore I don't get hung up on it. When I got into this hobby I saw avenues which would lead to my misery and I consciously avoid them, which is why I don't buy or sample discontinued stuff, I don't worry about batch codes or anything like that. Nevertheless I have found so many interesting smells, many of which I like wearing.

I always think of that Frank Ocean song 'it's a bad religion, to love something that doesn't love you back'. I believe Velasquez and Paul Klee loved me in some way, I don't think IFF or Takasago does.

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I think the answer lies somewhere in the happy medium between these three replies, personally.

There's too much product made too quickly with the intent to swindle your money, and a lot of happy accidents from this dev cycle (e.g. Plum Japonaise) are casualties of the rip and tear business model.

On the otherhand, unequaled access to information and product via the internet can also overwhelm the user not interested in or capable of spending hours vetting choices.

While there is also a lot of evidence suggesting most perfume (if not all major commercial perfume) is not meant as art, but can be accidentally high art at best; I think back to Andy Warhol in this case, who tried to make this point himself with his output.

Regarding Scent Bar, specifically–

I think they are just onboarding too many makers, willy-nilly. Back in 2010-ish, every line they had seem to have at least a few winners, and most of those have stuck around till today.

Cut to post-pandemic: the few times I've stopped by, the counter is loaded with houses I've never heard of, and when I sniff through the offerings, nothing stands out. After the top notes burn off, they all seem to go directly to the same, tired synthetic bases with almost no heart phase.

My 2 ¢.

/Acey

Yes, very much so. The trajectory is more and more in favour of whatever makes money. The creative or aesthetic side of the creation is contained by that concern. Even in the second hand market, where scarcity becomes a factor, aggressive mercantile instincts (people buying discontinued fragrances in order to sell them at X times the price) make things worse for everyone bar those who are most ruthless in their profiteering.

Social media has brought fast fashion to the fragrance world. The same 10 - 20 frags or clones of those frags are regurgitated ad nauseum. I rely on reviews by people with more discerning taste to bring the gems to the surface.

“I settled at Cold Mountain long ago,
Already it seems like years and years.
Freely drifting, I prowl the woods and streams
And linger watching things themselves.
Men don’t get this far into the mountains,
White clouds gather and billow.
Thin grass does for a mattress,
The blue sky makes a good quilt.
Happy with a stone under head
Let heaven and earth go about their changes.”
— Han Shan from The Cold Mountain Poems (courtesy of Gary Snyder)

My take on the current churn. Personally, I think Han Shan must have been a Brut guy…

The designer companies aren't failing. They're just making fragrances for the average casual consumer rather than enthusiasts.

There's probably more data than ever on what consumers preferences are, and they're selling accordingly. Us basenoters might not be their target audience, but this doesn't mean they're failing.

lair77 said:

The designer companies aren't failing. They're just making fragrances for the average casual consumer rather than enthusiasts.

There's probably more data than ever on what consumers preferences are, and they're selling accordingly. Us basenoters might not be their target audience, but this doesn't mean they're failing.

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I think pretty much this. They (some trade association, likely) have the data: what has been purchased, sorted in descending order. Whatever is at the top becomes an outline for the next fragrance. Despite the absolutely overwhelming number of fragrances being released, very little risk is being taken.

The marketing would have you believe it's art, while they are treating it as a commodity.

hednic said:

The market is saturated, but personally doesn't bother or worry me.

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^This... It's like music and literature too. There are for sure gems and masterpieces that don't get wide acclaim because maybe not enough people get to discover and experience them. But I still am amazed by what I personally have encountered and found spectacular.

Absolutely. we get lost in the sea of information, releases etc etc...the one release that could make an impact doesnt, it gets forgotten the next week.

Speaking quite subjectively take on this topic, would have quite recently been inclined to think so as well.

As well as quite reserved/skeptical as to how and even if the designer segment can ever bring out some (often underrated, unsung etc.) gems "non saturated" - or at least much less - by the mainstream designer trends.

However, for some reason (s), almost whenever feeling like giving up on hope, at least some of the designer houses manage somehow to still pleasantly surprise-at least from a still very unlearned, not often well substantiated, impressionable, incomplete and/or easy to influence personal viewpoint.