Delete please.

I contested posting this here or the ingredients section, but I assume this would be it.

So, I've decided to put in a second purchase and I'm currently running through the shopping list, the first order is what I initially purchased to get familiar with the ingredients, the categories of notes, and playing around with blends - the second order is what I'm currently looking at, I'm a fan of Aldehyde scents but I've yet to look into their longevity, and I'm a fan of florals due to nostalgia it provides and masculine musky, oud like ingredients due to robustness.

Feel free to run through my list and share what you would add and remove and why.
Remember there's no right or wrong answer, it's strictly personal preference and... sometimes objective reasoning. lol

First Order:

Hexyl acetate
Ethylene Brassylate
Timbersilk (Iso E Super)
Kepahlis
Benzaldehyde
Ambroxan
Ethyl Maltol
Veramoss
Juniper Berry EO
Isoraldeine 95
Vanillin
Coumarin
Cedarwood Viriginia
Florol
Frankincense
Methyl Ionone Gamma Pure
Habanolide
Benzyl Salicylate
Hedione
Isobutyl Phenyl Acetate
Birch Tar
Vertofix
Anisaldehyde
Mayol
Benzoin
Pretty Oud
Oud Oliffac
Ambrox Super
Damascone 939745
Passion Fruit Base
Aldehyde C-18
Jasmine Abs 952925
Rose Wardia
Suederal LT
Aldehyde C-12 MNA
Animalis 1745-03
Amber Xtreme
Civet (Synthetic)
Cinnamon Bark EO
Cashmeran Velvet
Maple Lactone
Orris Givco
Cedwarwood Atlas
Pink Pepper EO
Rose Geranium EO
Veratraldehyde
Vanilla CO2
Dynascone
Palisandrol

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Second Order:

Aldehyde C-11 Undecylenic
Aldehyde C-12 Lauric
Aldehyde C-12 MNA
Aldehyde C-14 PEACH
Aldehyde C-16 STRAWBERRY
Aldehyde C-8
Anisic Aldehyde
Lavender Aldehyde FCC (Bedoukian)
Hexyl Cinnamaldehyde (Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde)
Muguet Aldehyde 50% in DEP (IFF)
Phenyl Acetaldehyde 50%
Exaltolide® Total (Firmenich)
Benzyl Phenyl Acetate FCC
Phenethyl acetate (Phenyl Ethyl Acetate)
Citronellol (Natural)
Linalyl Acetate (Natural)
Helvetolide® (Firmenich)
Methyl Isoeugenol
Ethyl Butyrate FCC
Ethyl Methyl-2-Butyrate
Galaxolide® 50% in IPM (IFF)
Cassis 345B (Firmenich)
Rosemary (Tunisia)
Dimethyl Octanol
Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Acetate
Phenyl Acetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal (PADMA) - Viridine
Amyl Cinnamic Aldehyde
Phenylacetic acid (Natural) 40% in BB
Rose Oxide (racemic)
Damascone Delta
Rose Crystals
Peonile® (Givaudan)
Vertofix (Vertofix Coeur)(Methyl Cedryl Ketone)

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All of those rose compounds but no phenylethyl alcohol?

Would also suggest some ylang ylang for your jasmine compounds and maybe more in the muguet world - a muguet base, lyral/lilial or their replacers, hydroxycitronellal will be essential. Florals and aldehydes use these materials in spades.

Also wouldn't hurt to have a few more musks like muscone, muscenone, maybe velvione.

Would also do well with some alpha and beta ionone and linalool if you want to explore the violet and freesia space. They are lots of fun.

If you really care about aldehydes (assuming you mean the aliphatic ones?), then rename your Aldehyde C-14, C-16 and C18 to what they really are, because they are not aldehydes.

Somewhere in this forum there is a list of the top 100 suggested aroma chemicals that was put together by several members. How does your inventory and second order compare to the list? It is not written in stone that you need to buy these, but the list was put together by experience perfumers and should be a big help when deciding what to buy.

ambrinolforthechildren said:

All of those rose compounds but no phenylethyl alcohol?

Would also suggest some ylang ylang for your jasmine compounds and maybe more in the muguet world - a muguet base, lyral/lilial or their replacers, hydroxycitronellal will be essential. Florals and aldehydes use these materials in spades.

Also wouldn't hurt to have a few more musks like muscone, muscenone, maybe velvione.

Click to expand...

Haha, I was literally shopping for phenyl ethyl alcohol when I read this.
Appreciated, will be throwing more into the basket.

Riotousj902 said:

Somewhere in this forum there is a list of the top 100 suggested aroma chemicals that was put together by several members. How does your inventory and second order compare to the list? It is not written in stone that you need to buy these, but the list was put together by experience perfumers and should be a big help when deciding what to buy.

Click to expand...

Will do a deep dive for this now.

darkwitch said:

If you really care about aldehydes (assuming you mean the aliphatic ones?), then rename your Aldehyde C-14, C-16 and C18 to what they really are, because they are not aldehydes.

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Far from a chemist, will deep dive into the terminology (aliphatic) but I'm confused as to what you mean by they're not aldehydes? and to rename them?

EDIT:

I see... such as 'gamma Undecalactone' I understand, appreciate it!

I see no citruses. And no Patchouli.
I couldn't live one perfuming day without those.
Other must-haves for me: Labdanum, Hydroxycitronellal, Vetiver, something green

Edhelien said:

I see no citruses. And no Patchouli.
I couldn't live one perfuming day without those.
Other must-haves for me: Labdanum, Hydroxycitronellal, Vetiver, something green

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This is because I already have plenty (didn't include most the EO's I have) but thanks for the Labdanum reminder! added

Aetlas said:

Far from a chemist, will deep dive into the terminology (aliphatic) but I'm confused as to what you mean by they're not aldehydes? and to rename them?

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Aliphatic means the molecule has a straight chain. Typically, the numbered aldehydes (e.g. c10, c11, etc) are straight chains, as opposed to something like benzaldehyde, which has a carbon ring (aka an aromatic aldehyde, no relation to "aromatic" in the common sense of having a smell).

C14, C16, and C18 are not actually aldehydes but lactones. E.g. C14 "aldehyde" is properly called gamma undecalactone. The difference may seem pedantic but it can actually make a big difference in some instances, aside from just being technically correct.

Some other great aldehydes to have on hand are C10 and clonal, which are great when you need an orange note that has more more longevity than orange EO. Triplal is another useful aldehyde in the green family.

EDIT: joke's on me, turns out clonal (lauryl nitrile) is not an aldehyde either, despite having an aldehydic character. Nevertheless, it's still useful in conjuction with C10.

cdieguez said:

Aliphatic means the molecule has a straight chain. Typically, the numbered aldehydes (e.g. c10, c11, etc) are straight chains, as opposed to something like benzaldehyde, which has a carbon ring (aka an aromatic aldehyde, no relation to "aromatic" in the common sense of having a smell).

C14, C16, and C18 are not actually aldehydes but lactones. E.g. C14 "aldehyde" is properly called gamma undecalactone. The difference may seem pedantic but it can actually make a big difference in some instances, aside from just being technically correct.

Some other great aldehydes to have on hand are C10 and clonal, which are great when you need an orange note that has more more longevity than orange EO. Triplal is another useful aldehyde in the green family.

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Perfect timing, I was wondering why I couldn't find C14 on this website until I searched 'gamma Undecalactone', will be looking more into these thank you.

Aetlas said:

Far from a chemist, will deep dive into the terminology (aliphatic) but I'm confused as to what you mean by they're not aldehydes? and to rename them?

Click to expand...

I am sure you are aware of Chanel No 5 and its use of (actual) aldehydes. Those materials suddenly became super popular at the time of its release, so everyone wanted to use aldehydes. Some even started marketing OTHER materials as aldehydes, even though they were not so. For some odd reason, many people kept on using the wrong names for them ever since then.

What was called Aldehyde C-14 (about 100 years ago) was really gamma Undecalactone, a lactone.

What is called Aldehyde C-16 is really Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate, an ester of Glycidic Acid, so not a lactone. Sometimes just called Strawberry Glycidate.

And finally Aldehyde C-18 is really gamma Nonalactone, which is another lactone.

There are many other lactones as well. Even some musks are lactones, especially Macrocyclic ones when they end in -olide, which is an ending used for lactones. Even here the naming is messy, since for example Galaxolide is not a lactone.

Aetlas, You may reference my post on the naming group of aldehydes here:

And despite repeated agreements from a supplier for hobbyists, they continue to keep the false naming alive, continuing to provide endless confusion to learners.

darkwitch said:

I am sure you are aware of Chanel No 5 and its use of (actual) aldehydes. Those materials suddenly became super popular at the time of its release, so everyone wanted to use aldehydes. Some even started marketing OTHER materials as aldehydes, even though they were not so. For some odd reason, many people kept on using the wrong names for them ever since then.

What was called Aldehyde C-14 (about 100 years ago) was really gamma Undecalactone, a lactone.

What is called Aldehyde C-16 is really Ethyl Methyl Phenyl Glycidate, an ester of Glycidic Acid, so not a lactone. Sometimes just called Strawberry Glycidate.

And finally Aldehyde C-18 is really gamma Nonalactone, which is another lactone.

There are many other lactones as well. Even some musks are lactones, especially Macrocyclic ones when they end in -olide, which is an ending used for lactones. Even here the naming is messy, since for example Galaxolide is not a lactone.

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pkiler said:

Aetlas, You may reference my post on the naming group of aldehydes here:

Incorrectly named "Aldehydes"

This is as full a list as I've seen of the marketing terms used by early manufacturers, to attract the attention of Perfumers, who wanted those amazing "Aldehydes", known for making Chanel No. 5 so famous. Back when, decades ago, nearly a century ago. After the success of marketing the smaller...

basenotes.com

And despite repeated agreements from a supplier for hobbyists, they continue to keep the false naming alive, continuing to provide endless confusion to learners.

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Very informative, thank you currently into a rabbit hole of YouTube videos on this while taking notes, appreciate the link will give it a read.

Alright, new list - but this time I need expert advice on which out of the 49? is the least important or almost a clone of a similar ingredient on the list:

• Aldehyde C-11 Undecylenic - CAS #: 112-45-8
• Aldehyde C-12 Lauric - CAS #: 112-53-8
• Aldehyde C-14 PEACH
• Aldehyde C-16 STRAWBERRY
• Aldehyde C-8 - CAS #: 124-19-6
• Lavender Aldehyde FCC (Bedoukian) - CAS #: 68039-54-5
• Hexyl Cinnamaldehyde (Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde) - CAS #: 101-86-0
• Muguet Aldehyde 50% in DEP (IFF)
• Phenyl Acetaldehyde 50% - CAS #: 122-78-1
• Exaltolide® Total (Firmenich) - CAS #: 54318-79-5
• Benzyl Phenyl Acetate FCC - CAS #: 103-53-7
• Phenethyl acetate a.k.a Phenyl Ethyl Acetate - CAS #: 103-45-7
• Helvetolide® (Firmenich) - CAS #: 50512-35-1
• Methyl Isoeugenol - CAS #: 93-16-3
• Citronellol (Natural) - CAS #: 106-22-9
• Ethyl Butyrate FCC - CAS #: 105-54-4
• Ethyl Methyl-2-Butyrate - CAS #: 616-27-7
• Galaxolide® 50% in IPM (IFF) - CAS #: 1222-05-5
• Cassis 345B (Firmenich) - CAS #: 95-63-6
• Rosemary (Tunisia) - CAS #: 8000-25-7
• Dimethyl Octanol - CAS #: 4569-09-3
• Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Acetate - CAS #: 151-05-3
• Phenyl Acetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal (PADMA)
• Amyl Cinnamic Aldehyde - CAS #: 122-40-7
• Phenylacetic acid (Natural) 40% - CAS #: 103-82-2
• Rose Oxide (racemic) - CAS #: 16409-43-1
• Damascone Delta - CAS #: 6752-99-8
• Rose Crystals
• Peonile® (Givaudan)
• Oud Oliffac (IFF)
• Linalyl Acetate (Natural) - CAS #: 115-95-7
• Guaiyl Acetate
• Clove Bud Indonesia - CAS #: 8000-34-8
• Cyclamen Aldehyde - CAS #: 103-95-7
• Ambrettolide (Natural) - CAS #: 7779-50-2
• Methyl Phenyl Acetate (40% in BB) - CAS #: 101-41-7
• Ylang Ylang (Extra) - Comoros - CAS #: 8006-81-3
• Isomuscone® - 50% IPM
• Ionone Beta - CAS #: 14901-07-6
• Labdanum Absolute (50%) - CAS #: 8016-26-0
• Allyl Amyl Glycolate - CAS #: 67634-00-8
• Oranger Crystals
• Jasmone Cis - CAS #: 488-10-8
• Jasmatone (Givaudan)
• Sandalore® - CAS #: 65113-99-7
• Muscenone® (Firmenich) - CAS #: 104056-66-9
• Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol - CAS #: 60-12-8
• Rum Ether (Natural) - CAS #: 98077-61-7
• Bacdanol

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If you could subtract 5-10 from the list, which would it be and why?

I plan to work on learning the characteristics of each ingredient but I also plan to split my order in to 2 so that I can prioritise learning most important or most common ones first.

No right or wrong answer.

Aetlas said:

Alright, new list - but this time I need expert advice on which out of the 49? is the least important or almost a clone of a similar ingredient on the list:


If you could subtract 5-10 from the list, which would it be and why?

I plan to work on learning the characteristics of each ingredient but I also plan to split my order in to 2 so that I can prioritise learning most important or most common ones first.

No right or wrong answer.

Click to expand...

IMO & IME, this repeatedly asked question about "what materials to buy" in the abstract is not a particularly useful question to ask or answer. The better way forward, IMO & IME, is to select a few accords and/or simple-but-complete fragrance formulas that seem appealing to you as a substrate for learning & then buy what is needed to make those formulas & explore via experimentation how the various materials function in them.

I see vanillin and vanilla co2 but no ethyl vanillin. I'd recommend picking some up, it's inexpensive.

You can drop lavender aldehyde and benzyl phenyl acetate.

When I started, I thought, “If I just get all of the Top 100, all the right ingredients, I will finally be able to make all the things I want and I will learn everything.” And it became like a quest to hunt down each one from different suppliers.
After a little while, I realised the path to perfumery is an idiosyncratic one. It’s not exactly like stocking the basics in a kitchen (although Hedione, Galaxolide and Iso E Super fall into that category for me).

I have read that people who do perfumery as a craft / commercially will often learn for months just smelling ingredients and don’t even get to blend for months or a year! In that context, I think learning the 100 most common chemicals is sensible. It’s sensible anyway. There is no substitute for learning materials by smelling them and recognising them at 1 hour, 4 hours, 160 hours etc til you know them off by heart.

But given you want to have an enjoyable experience along the way and you quite likely are not going to be picked up in Givaudan’s next intake, the other options are:
1. Enjoy smelling all the things you have chosen already and learn them well.
2. Pick some things you want to try. For example, consider multiple rose formulas or multiple jasmine formulas, many of which are available online / on basenotes. Or find a perfume that you love and know well and buy the formula from a reputable vendor. Or choose some simple accords you want to try.
3. Buy everything you need for the formulas / accords you want to do (one at a time if necessary for reasonable budget reasons).
4. Make those formulas and do lots of variations to see how the materials interact with each other.
5, go back to step 1 and repeat. Of course you can also try your own formulas along the way.

I guess what I’m saying is, personally, I would have little use just at the moment for rum ether, Lavender Aldehyde or Oud Ollifac but if you want to buy them because (a) you want to smell, enjoy and learn them or (b) you have a formula you’re itching to try with them
… then you should totally get them. If not, then don’t.

Also, buying ingredients if you have the budget, is actually just fun. So enjoy it!

crefella said:

When I started, I thought, “If I just get all of the Top 100, all the right ingredients, I will finally be able to make all the things I want and I will learn everything.” And it became like a quest to hunt down each one from different suppliers.
After a little while, I realised the path to perfumery is an idiosyncratic one. It’s not exactly like stocking the basics in a kitchen (although Hedione, Galaxolide and Iso E Super fall into that category for me).

I have read that people who do perfumery as a craft / commercially will often learn for months just smelling ingredients and don’t even get to blend for months or a year! In that context, I think learning the 100 most common chemicals is sensible. It’s sensible anyway. There is no substitute for learning materials by smelling them and recognising them at 1 hour, 4 hours, 160 hours etc til you know them off by heart.

But given you want to have an enjoyable experience along the way and you quite likely are not going to be picked up in Givaudan’s next intake, the other options are:
1. Enjoy smelling all the things you have chosen already and learn them well.
2. Pick some things you want to try. For example, consider multiple rose formulas or multiple jasmine formulas, many of which are available online / on basenotes. Or find a perfume that you love and know well and buy the formula from a reputable vendor. Or choose some simple accords you want to try.
3. Buy everything you need for the formulas / accords you want to do (one at a time if necessary for reasonable budget reasons).
4. Make those formulas and do lots of variations to see how the materials interact with each other.
5, go back to step 1 and repeat. Of course you can also try your own formulas along the way.

I guess what I’m saying is, personally, I would have little use just at the moment for rum ether, Lavender Aldehyde or Oud Ollifac but if you want to buy them because (a) you want to smell, enjoy and learn them or (b) you have a formula you’re itching to try with them
… then you should totally get them. If not, then don’t.

Also, buying ingredients if you have the budget, is actually just fun. So enjoy it!

Click to expand...

Agreed! This was precisely my point, made above.