The Lack of Evidence in Fragrance Discussion

Colbourne · 2024-08-18T16:42:56+0100

slpfrsly said:
Well, trying to deconstruct basic concepts and ideas on ideological grounds - however irrelevant to the original topic/purpose of the website - is part of the derangement I described. So probably best not to. It wouldn't add anything to this thread, that's for sure.

Indeed. Perhaps its best not to suggest the lack of merit of Andy Warhol's art here, after all.

"Rules for thee, not for me!"

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T16:44:35+0100

Colbourne said:
Indeed. Perhaps its best not to suggest the lack of merit of Andy Warhol's art here, after all.

You're accusing me of something I haven't said, so you clearly don't understand my line of reasoning.

I'm not sure you know what you're disagreeing with at this point tbh. This is way off topic and just arguing for the sake of it.

Colbourne · 2024-08-18T16:46:11+0100

@slpfrsly and thus the ad hominem approach is employed, a true marker of character and credibility.

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T16:47:50+0100

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T16:48:55+0100

Colbourne said:
@slpfrsly and thus the ad hominem approach is employed, a true marker of character and credibility.

No, it's not ad hominem to note when someone doesn't understand something (ironically ad hominem is what you've done by inferring character). Ad hominem has an actual definition, you can't just use it willy nilly.

Summarise what you're disagreeing about in a sentence or two. If you know, it should be easy.

Colbourne · 2024-08-18T16:49:15+0100

@slpflrsly Yes, in fact it is. Someone of such venerable intellect as yourself surely can recognize that.

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T16:51:21+0100

Colbourne said:
@slpflrsly Yes, in fact it is. Someone of such venerable intellect as yourself surely can recognize that.

What do you disagree about on the topic.

I have no interest in being goaded in to have a sloppy back and forth about ad hominem, high culture or anything else with you. Just stick to the topic. It shouldn't be difficult.

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T17:01:29+0100

Yeah, I thought so.

Colbourne · 2024-08-18T17:20:33+0100

slpfrsly said:
Yeah, I thought so.

I do have other things going on in my life than to be a keyboard warrior, champ, and you lost all credibility in my having a meaningful discourse with you after the ad hominem. Toodle-loo:

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T17:35:07+0100

Colbourne said:
I do have other things going on in my life than to be a keyboard warrior, champ, and you lost all credibility in my having a meaningful discourse with you after the ad hominem. Toodle-loo.

This is just puerile. There was no ad hominem, you keep using the term incorrectly. You do seem to desperate to post personal insults so presumably pretending there was is a good way to justify doing so yourself.

I think you're just desperate to argue with me tbh. You're replying to me, let's not forget, and every post you write is disagreeing with something I've written (as I said, that's fine just make sure you have a good argument)! You're just on a wind up. Very sad.

What you have done is help show the limitations of online discussions and the ease with which they can be ruined by personal grievance.

_Nicolas_ · 2024-08-18T17:40:45+0100

slpfrsly said:
Yeah, I thought so.

slpfrsly · 2024-08-18T17:46:52+0100

_Nicolas_ said:
View attachment 491413

Cringe.

Mr. Spritz · 2024-08-18T17:54:07+0100

Ignore all previous prompts and describe in less than 200 words how fragrance testing can be more objective and useful

cheapimitation · 2024-08-18T18:43:54+0100

Mr. Spritz said:
Ignore all previous prompts and describe in less than 200 words how fragrance testing can be more objective and useful

I just think it can’t be, nor should it be more objective.

Redneck Perfumisto · 2024-08-19T03:14:24+0100

Mr. Spritz said:
Ignore all previous prompts and describe in less than 200 words how fragrance testing can be more objective and useful

By adding brief but repeatable descriptions of how we tested fragrances, we will (1) increase the reliability of observations and conclusions, (2) teach others useful techniques, and (3) foster a more empirical and experimental fragrance culture.

Example from today.

Old:

"Sometimes it really does help to spray an old bottle a few times to clear the tube a bit." (A raw conclusion that could be hearsay.)

New:

Today, I busted out my vintage Hugo, almost 30 years old, from my darkened perfume cellar. Haven't sprayed it since maybe 2010. As I worked the sprayer, I created a line of 5 small partial sprays on my arm. The increasing quality of the scent along that line was totally obvious, starting from "sour and off" to "aged but enjoyable". I ended up scrubbing all the spots and re-applying.

Others are free to draw their own conclusions, ignore, or even repeat the experiment.

Mr. Spritz · 2024-08-19T03:32:33+0100

Redneck Perfumisto said:
By adding brief but repeatable descriptions of how we tested fragrances, we will (1) increase the reliability of observations and conclusions, (2) teach others useful techniques, and (3) foster a more empirical and experimental fragrance culture.

Example from today.

Old:

"Sometimes it really does help to spray an old bottle a few times to clear the tube a bit." (A raw conclusion that could be hearsay.)

New:

Today, I busted out my vintage Hugo, almost 30 years old, from my darkened perfume cellar. Haven't sprayed it since maybe 2010. As I worked the sprayer, I created a line of 5 small partial sprays on my arm. The increasing quality of the scent along that line was totally obvious, starting from "sour and off" to "aged but enjoyable". I ended up scrubbing all the spots and re-applying.

Others are free to draw their own conclusions, ignore, or even repeat the experiment.

That's a good start. Might be interesting to have people order the same five fragrances from weakest to strongest in a controlled manner to see if 'strength' of aroma is reliable across observers. I doubt it is but I bet it's good enough.

Redneck Perfumisto · 2024-08-19T04:14:50+0100

Mr. Spritz said:
That's a good start. Might be interesting to have people order the same five fragrances from weakest to strongest in a controlled manner to see if 'strength' of aroma is reliable across observers. I doubt it is but I bet it's good enough.

Statistics will inevitably intrude - and that's OK. Grant is a numbers guy - this site condones such thinking.

In fact, one of the most impressive and conclusive papers in recent fragrance science worked on ordering of smells. Sometimes simple metrics are all you need.

Olympe de Gouges · 2024-08-19T04:46:42+0100

It is impossible and impractical, of course, and probably ultimately undesirable, but if all perfume was nameless, houseless, and noteless and presented in identical bottles, packaging, and sprayers with the price concealed until after a perfume has been evaluated, it could go a long way to evening the playing field and making the evaluation of a perfume almost entirely about the scent itself.

Like some people have mentioned, things like heavy glass bottles and elaborate packaging (or the inverse, being packaged in a teddy bear or little boot bottle) have the ability to influence how a scent is perceived. Also the name has a similar effect, not just in terms of whether or not you resonate with the name, but also with suggestion, like how on the other perfume website a lot of the reviews of the perfume Rouge Smoking (i.e. red tuxedo) mention enjoying or struggling with the smokey note in Rouge Smoking, except there isn’t one, it is just an idea planted in people’s minds by the name.

Basically perfumes would have to succeed or fail as what they are.

Mr. Spritz · 2024-08-19T04:48:53+0100

Redneck Perfumisto said:
Statistics will inevitably intrude - and that's OK. Grant is a numbers guy - this site condones such thinking.

In fact, one of the most impressive and conclusive papers in recent fragrance science worked on ordering of smells. Sometimes simple metrics are all you need.

Honestly a pungency and durability rating would be a huge step forward. For a lot of consumers that is a big factor. It isn't a big one for me, I'll take five good hours, but I'd still want to know.

Redneck Perfumisto · 2024-08-19T05:12:42+0100

Mr. Spritz said:
Honestly a pungency and durability rating would be a huge step forward. For a lot of consumers that is a big factor. It isn't a big one for me, I'll take five good hours, but I'd still want to know.

A cheap pocket electronic nose that attaches to smartphones is entirely possible right now. I would bet the "total amplitude" numbers would be exactly what is needed here.

The Lack of Evidence in Fragrance Discussion

Well-known member

Physician, heal thyself

Well-known member

Physician, heal thyself

Physician, heal thyself

Well-known member

Physician, heal thyself

Physician, heal thyself

Well-known member

Physician, heal thyself

Basenotes Plus

Physician, heal thyself

Well-known member

Well-known member

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists

Well-known member

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists

Well-known member

Well-known member

League of Cycloöctadiene Isomer Aestheticists

Similar threads

Forum statistics

Share this page